CCC Note Grading - Graded by Steven Bromberg

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

If anyone saw the The Shopping Channel on tv tonight, Steve Bromberg issued 1923 $1 Dominion of Canada notes.  What was interesting about this episode was that he launched his own graded notes in sealed holders with security holograms, etc.   The note grading service is called CCC.  

He had mentioned on tv that Canadian grading standards are much more strict than U.S. grading standards. 

{http://images.theshoppingchannel.com/is/image/TheShoppingChannel/503212}

{http://images.theshoppingchannel.com/is/image/TheShoppingChannel/503213}

Actually this sparked my curiosity so I googled the name and found the CCC website - no mention of offering a TPG services or to what standards notes are graded to i.e Charlton or Krause (or what ever the American one is, just stated they sell through the Shopping Channel along with other services.

I notice on these particular notes use the "Exceptional Paper Quality" term which I believe is a creation of PMG (which I am sure this "term" is copyrighted somehow, if it can be).  I did not see the episode, actually I have never seen the Shopping Channel, so its interesting he would make the comment that Canadian standards are more strict than American standards? I also assume the Shopping Channel never said they were Third Party Graded, which by definition you cannot be an 'third party' if you are also not independent of the transaction, in this case also being the seller.

I guess anyone (dealer or otherwise) can get sticker and put a plastic holder and heat seal it (I assume these ones are).  These stickers are really no different than a dealer having a white sticker on a Mylar holder with his grade and price on it.  The advantage with the latter being you can take the note out and inspect it.

Since these are very high grade notes, I assume anyone would want to inspect them out of the holder and would the shopping channel take them back if you cut them out of the holder, again I am assuming they are sealed.  I don't know the shopping channel return policy but they usually says you can only return in the original packaging or if something is wrong with the item with in a specified time period.

So is a note graded as UNC-65 but in purchaser's interpretation and UNC-63 a defect that you can return because you took it out of the package?  Is it the same as a new LCD 42" TV with one pixel that does not work when they deliver it and put it back in the box and returned it?

Just my opinion

I also assume the Shopping Channel never said they were Third Party Graded, which by definition you cannot be an 'third party' if you are also not independent of the transaction, in this case also being the seller.

The advantage with the latter being you can take the note out and inspect it.

I too would have a major concern if the so called "TPG" was in fact the person selling the note. I find it hard to believe that there would be no conflict of interest.

However, I don't think that allowing  person to take a note out of a holder and simply placing it back in the holder would be a good idea.  Imagine at any show where people are constantly taking notes out and putting them back in a graded holder.... what are the chances of that note being in the same condition as it started out as ...there is just to much of a risk for the note to get damaged.
As for TPG notes, I think that the bottom line is that a person has to trust, believe, have some confidence in the TPG when buying their notes....otherwise they should just buy raw notes that they can handle.  I know very very very few dealers or collectors that will allow you to cut a note out of a holder to inspect the note and only buy it if it is to your satisfaction.  For example a PMG graded note can be upwards of $40 plus and to let someone cut the note out of a holder really is not a profitable move
Only my opinion......

I know very very very few dealers or collectors that will allow you to cut a note out of a holder to inspect the note and only buy it if it is to your satisfaction.

I just need one,and a sharp pair of scissors.Fess up!

I agree with Third Party Graded notes and coins where the graders are also the sellers.   There are certainly a few coin/note graders that slab their coins/notes for a fee to others, but also sell to collectors/buyers, those same graded coins/notes which they have graded themselves.   There's always the possibility of conflict of interest, because of the almighty $$$.  An MS63 vs. MS65 and a UNC63 vs UNC65 could mean a difference of hundreds of dollars.

It's almost a like a physician self diagnosing themselves.  Most docs think they're fine and they don't need independent advice.   

I know Mr.B has been selling stuff on the shopping channel for well over 10 years.

I know because I did buy a $1 Devil's Face well over 10 years ago.  It was sold back then as "Superb excellent brand new condition" Lol.. 

I had this note graded by BCS and it came back CUNC-64 so I believe he does tend to be honest with his grading.  But they do use terms like "Exceptional Collectible" condition.  Which I would interpret to be EF+/AU Condtion.  He doesn't say "UNC" unless it is.

But the prices are insane.  I paid $50 over 10 years ago for the $1 Devil's Face.  It was more than book back than but luckily the price has risen.

Here is a link to an item they have available from them.  If this link is not allowed feel free to delete.  I don't work for the Shopping Channel.  LOL.

http://www.theshoppingchannel.com/product/home/hobbies+%26+leisure/dollar+collection+in+mylar+holders+294283.do?&N=128914&Ns=P_DATE_CREATED&No=48

But the point is the price is nutty..  $89.95 for

1- EF/AU G-T 1937 $1
1 - B/R 1954 - $1
1 - No Serial 1967 $1
1 - 1967 Serial $1
2 - Uncut 1973 1's

Book value you are talking what??  $30 if you lucky?  Lol..  No Markup there.

Steve's been on The Shopping Channel since 1992/93.   So, that's nearly 15 to 16 years on tv.  Time sure flies. 

Anyhow, he must be doing well with The Shopping Channel, otherwise, sellers do not get invited back on to the show.

From what I've heard from dealers, The Shopping Channel takes about 35 to 50% of the selling price as commission on Steve's products.   

As for the notes he sells, at least The Shopping Channel does have a money back guarantee policy, so, if you aren't satisfied by the notes' condition, return it for a full refund. 

Be sure to look at what you are buying very close!!!  As Always

I would have a serious problem buying notes that have been so called professionally graded by the seller themselves?  I have talked to people that have purchased items from him through the shopping channel and they all said that the presentation aspect of how then notes were arranged in nice books with info and pictures and so on and so on was very nice indeed. They also made great mantle show pieces or coffee table books.  But when it came down to the exact quality/grading of the products in the fancy holders and the fancy pictures and documentation that came with it was basically a little bit of lipstick and rouge to cover up the fact that the grading of the coins in the fancy case were somewhat lower then they were supposed to be.  But most people buying off there would probably never take a second look at the grading of the items themselves unless they were a very serious collector.

So just a heads up when buying off their, not saying that it is junk, in fact he does have a lot of very nice sets made up but they tend to be over graded slightly.

Again this is just the dealings that I have heard about from people I have talked to after they bought the items.


 Jeff/Bugsy

I was told by a very reliable source that Mr. Bromberg merely acts as an agent for the Shopping Channel and that the Shopping Channel owns everything that is sold. Mr. Bromberg accumulates, assembles and then sells the material to them in bulk and then acts as their selling representative on the TV. He's a very smooth and convincing TV host indeed which I'm sure is largely why the show is successful in selling relatively ordinary material at strong prices (mainly to the general public rather than to specialized collectors).

OK, I called Canadian Coin & Currency today to inquire about the grading of notes. The gentleman I spoke with today said that they do not third party grade notes, and he recommended contacting the regular TPG services. I mentioned that I saw some notes on TSC that look graded, and he said that this is special packaging for the shopping channel only, and is packaged in this manner for TSC material only.

I just noticed one of is notes again and he states
"These notes have been graded as "Uncirculated 60". Although they were never used in circulation, they were likely used in 1922 as samples to show bank employees what the new note issues would look like. The paper on each note is new and original as printed, although they may have small pin or staple marks from being displayed on a sample board, or may have a minor counting bend"

Would anyone still consider this an UNC 60 with pin holes or staple marks?

According to proper grading standards, from what I understand, it if graded at Unc 60 would be obliged to have a disclosure of the pinholes or staple marks etc.

Actually, regardless of grade, these would have to be disclosed, unless it was part of the description of the grade, as in the poorer quality grades.


H

Just remember that CCC is not a grading company, this is only special packing designed for and sold through the shopping channel, and they are usually sold as pristine collectable condition. Ultimately this is a dealer grading and selling the note in show style packaging.

there are a bunch of these notes (ccc with no grading) up for auction right now. All Chartered and i think all from the same seller.

Just a few minutes ago on TSC, I saw some chartered bank specimens being sold in CCC holders indicating a grade of "UNC 60" and a notation "Premium Paper Quality".  So if Mr. Bromberg is an agent obtaining these notes for TSC, and is also affiliated with CCC, I wouldn't consider these to be TPG notes, but they could still be referred to as "slabbed".

I suppose technically you could say they are TPG notes, since TSC is the seller and CCC/Mr. Bromberg is the grader, but there is obviously a conflict of interest.  It would be the same as TSC getting their notes graded by PMG or BCS, and then having a grader from PMG/BCS on their show to help push their merchandise (with the grader getting a cut of the sales revenue).