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Topic: BTT/BTU Wrong Paper Errors (Discussion)  (Read 36904 times)
noon
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« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2009, 10:30:07 am »

Thant's because this note is clearly worth 100K, come on everybody knows that!!!  ;D

MG

is it worth a 100k thats a lot loll
rocken
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« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2009, 02:41:42 pm »

If someone wanted to inflate a price he could tell a friend the reserve and have him bid to the max  under the reserve.

Ottawa
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« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2009, 03:19:43 pm »

All these shenanigans remind me of the Bank of Nova Scotia $5 1898 note that's been on eBay for at least a year priced at US$88,888.00 (why not $88,888.88 though??). A search for " $5 Doull " will capture it. Some people evidently get a rise out of "playing the fool" ...

" Buy the very best notes that you can afford and keep them for at least 10 years. " (Richard D. Lockwood, private communication, 1978).
nova7415
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« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2009, 01:10:32 pm »

I am just curious if anyone knows how many of these errors have now been found.
YES.....I'm with Manada on this ;). To date I have only seen the 2 that were listed on eBay a while back. Does Jared - "Elwoodbluesca" happen to know of any more then those 2 ???.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 01:12:06 pm by nova7415 »
BWJM
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« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2009, 01:18:10 pm »

What I can say at this point is that there should be hundreds of these errors in circulation. Several have been found. While I do not know the exact number of known notes, I estimate it to be approximately two dozen.

nova7415: Please read the thread from the beginning. The question of how many notes are known has already been addressed. My post, quoted above, states that the number of known notes is approximately two dozen. One more was just reported today.

BWJM
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woodguy62
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« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2009, 02:27:13 pm »

nova

There is one currently on ebid. There is a link to ebid in this thread, I think.
mmars
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« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2009, 04:06:07 pm »

Now that great progress in researching the BTT/BTU double-denomination error notes has been made and reported in numismatic publications, I think it would be interesting to speculate on how the errors occurred.

The errors are thinly distributed throughout a range of nearly 10 million notes.  The total number of possible error sheets has not been pinned down yet, but it's probably a small number, and I am inclined to think that all of the sheets were together in one stack at some point.  In other words, all the error notes are the result of one big screw-up instead of the same error repeated coincidently several times on a smaller scale.  So, if you go along with this premise, then we need to think of what caused the sheets to be separated into smaller groups.  I can't fathom machinery being used to shuffle up hundreds of thousands of unprinted sheets of security paper.  The point of doing that would also be lost on me.  Given that BAI is absolutely cranking out paper money these days, it's probable that not all the banknote paper they receive is in perfect shape.  A few damaged and/or defective sheets get replaced even before the printing stage.  So an employee grabbed some unprinted $20 sheets by mistake, put them aside, and these sheets were slowly used up when replacement sheets were needed to make up a ream.

So the errors would be, in effect, a kind of replacement note if this hypothesis can hold water.  Comments?

    No hay banda  
BWJM
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« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2009, 04:25:06 pm »

If sheets are not numbered, what is the point in having any order to them? Why not just pull out rejected sheets without replacement, continuing on until there are X number of sheets in the stack?

BWJM
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mmars
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« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2009, 06:31:05 pm »

Without any kind of insight into how the printers handle their sheets, we just don't know how they keep track of stacks of unprinted sheets.  Had the block of $20 sheets been introduced like any other stack of sheets, they would probably not have become so mixed up with the rest of the $10 sheets.  In other words, the errors would be all within one ream of 40,000 notes.  But they're not confined to one range.  So far, we see a couple of reams where multiple errors have been identified, and a couple of outliers with one or two errors.

I'm not saying they replace unprinted sheets like inserts, i.e., literally inserting them in the place of defective sheets because there's no point to doing that.  The sheets could be added to the end of a few stacks when there was a deficit of sheets in those stacks, and then the stacks get fed into the machines in an unordered way.  Who knows.  As far as I am concerned, the distribution of these errors over a large number of notes reminds me of replacements, and if it's just a coincidence, I can accept being wrong.

Maybe the mixing of the unprinted sheets occurred at the paper supplier's end?  That's another possibility.  In the end, it doesn't matter whether the errors are replacements or not.  There's still a plausible chance that the error sheets came from one source and they were intact when they were in the hands of the printers who subsequently mixed them up as the result of one large oversight in quality control rather than several smaller episodes.

    No hay banda  
BWJM
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« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2009, 09:58:18 pm »

Over the past few weeks, I've received hundreds of BTT/BTU notes. Going through thousands of circulated $10s in that time does not make that fact too surprising. What does is that on several occasions including today, I've received nothing but BTT/BTU notes.

I picked up 150 $10s today from a local bank. The full bundle had a green-edged Bank of Canada wrapper on it. All 150 notes were from the BTT and BTU prefixes, and of course none were errors. I think Kitchener may be a dumping ground for searched bundles of BTT and BTU!

BWJM
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woodguy62
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« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2009, 10:30:03 am »

There was supposed to be an article written for CPMS in Sept. Maybe we could get a reprint here on the forum?
BWJM
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« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2009, 10:39:13 am »

If you would like to join the CPMS, you can read the newsletter on the CPMS website. Membership is only $30 per year.

BWJM
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woodguy62
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« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2009, 10:49:02 am »

I only suggested a reprint because of the diligent efforts of forum members to collect BTT/BTU data.
BWJM
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« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2009, 10:54:10 am »

It would be up to the author whether or not he wishes to make his article available in venues other than the CPMS newsletter. Membership has its benefits.

BWJM
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President, IBNS Ontario Chapter.
Treasurer, Waterloo Coin Society.
Show Chair, Cambridge Coin Show.
Fellow of the Ontario Numismatic Association.
Elwoodbluesca
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« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2009, 11:48:04 am »

Here is a small portion of the article;
Join the CPMS and get the whole article, Absolutely FREE, with paid membership.

AN OUT-OF-SIGHT ERROR – PART II (Portions)
by Jared Stapleton

With all the attention the previous article received, it seems fitting to continue research and update eager followers of these error notes.

To date, the only prefixes known to be affected with this error are BTT and BTU, and 22 notes have been reported.

The Bank of Canada was kind enough to divulge a few details regarding these notes.

- The Bank declined to say what ranges of notes were affected by this error.
- The majority of notes reported from the Toronto and Vancouver regions.
- Acknowledged that these notes have been released into circulation, that this is a small isolated case occurring over a small quantity of notes
- Advised that the error notes are legal tender, and if you wish, you may contact the BoC to have your note exchanged for a non-error $10 note. (This would not be my recommendation to dispose of your notes!)

When looking at the data, there appears to be no pattern to the distribution of the error notes. They occur as clusters with a few solitary outliers scattered throughout a range of nearly 9.5 million $10 notes. Using some newly reported information on sheet layouts and numbering practices employed by BAI and reported in this issue of the CPMS Newsletter (pp. 75-78), it has been determined that the clusters of error notes fall within distinct reams. Twenty-one of the twenty-two reported error notes have position numbers that place these notes in the first eight rows of the 45/on layout. These twenty-one error notes occupy five reams.

Only time will tell how rare these notes are, but in the meantime, keep checking your notes, especially your tens. Your continued dedication to reporting serial numbers and position numbers of all BTT and BTU notes is appreciated. Please report your finds by email to elwoodbluesca@rogers.com or post your data on the Canadian Paper Money Forums at http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/.

Acknowledgements
Mark Marschner, Brent W.J. Mackie and the ongoing support of all those people who contributed data.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 02:23:34 pm by Elwoodbluesca »

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