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Topic: Another Mismatched Serial Number $20 Canadian  (Read 16338 times)
ikandiggit
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« on: September 13, 2009, 01:29:09 pm »

This is my second mismatched $20 in a couple of months. It's the same prefix ELN.
How many are there actually out there if it was a misprinted sheet?



copperpete
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 04:32:39 pm »

I strongly doubt that all the notes on the same sheet have mismatched serials.  It's a kind on error which occurs on one of the mechanical printer for the numbers, not on all of them (there is 40 pairs to print a sheet).

What I think is that a serie of consecutive notes, with an undetermined lenght, were printed with some of the printing wheels stucked in a different position from its neighbor (these sets of printing wheels are not mechanically linked between them) .  It can go on for a long time before the operator see the error and stops the printer and repair the printing device.

Is both notes have serials very near one form each other?  Can you post a scanof the other note?  It could set a minimal range for  the error...

woodguy62
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 04:35:25 pm »

Nice find!

Can you post FPN/BPN also....
ikandiggit
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 05:09:40 pm »

fpn95  bpn25 for the new one.

Unfortunately, I'll have to get the fpn and bpn for the one that I sold from the purchaser:



There was also an earlier post from January, 2009:

http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=9107.0
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 05:14:31 pm by ikandiggit »
ikandiggit
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 07:30:50 pm »


Here are the plate numbers for the following bill.  Fpn 46 Bpn 25





woodguy62
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 07:49:52 pm »

The left S/N is a sheet replacement, the right S/N is not... :-\
copperpete
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 08:50:13 pm »

So it raises the question:  What would be its real serial number?  Is it belongs to the replacement serie or not?... ??? ??? ???

woodguy62
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 09:32:52 pm »

In this case case I'd say the S/N on the left is correct, the right seems to be stuck on 6.
Both notes are printed in the same sheet position so.......

ELN9798312 ELN9698312
ELN9799195 ELN9699195

copperpete
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 09:09:23 pm »

There's possibility to determine its real serial number: one have just to  compare its serials with those which can be calculated from the Standard Matrix, knowing the FPN/BPN and the skip number... The number who matches the Standard Matrix is the real serial number...

One can ask HudsonAB... ;)

Hudson A B
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 09:53:46 pm »

There's possibility to determine its real serial number: one have just to  compare its serials with those which can be calculated from the Standard Matrix, knowing the FPN/BPN and the skip number... The number who matches the Standard Matrix is the real serial number...

One can ask HudsonAB... ;)
Thanks copperpete, yes you are right. One of the two will match the standard matrix for CBN.  Whichever one that is, would be the real serial number. 
I love this mystery game. 
Does anyone want to give it a shot? I am just out the door right away, so I will pass for now...

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woodguy62
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 10:45:41 pm »

9799195/9699195 46/25
The right SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25

9798312/9698312 95/25
FPN 95 is too high for CBN PN's
The right side SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25

The right SN wasn't stuck on 6, appears the left SN skipped ahead.
Hudson A B
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2009, 08:25:41 pm »

9799195/9699195 46/25
The right SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25

9798312/9698312 95/25
FPN 95 is too high for CBN PN's
The right side SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25

The right SN wasn't stuck on 6, appears the left SN skipped ahead.


Excellent.  The point is moot, but it is worth reminding that notes in this serial number range have been known to have a 6000 skip (9.72 or higher), or an 8000 skip (below 9.72).
So, if the tumbler jumped forward, then yes indeed, 8000 skip is right.

Good work everyone!

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ikandiggit
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2009, 09:30:33 pm »

Based on this information, using these two bills, what would be the minimum number of misprinted bills?

Also, the bill (ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800) that rjms768 found had three digits mismatched. Is this one unique?

Have there been any others from the ELN series with mismatched numbers reported?
mmars
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2009, 12:00:52 am »

Hello.

Congratulations ikandiggit on your discovery of mismatched number notes.  I am truly envious as I have always wanted to find such an error but have been unsuccessful.

I am not an expert on error notes, but I know about CBN printing practices with the skip interval of 8,000 and the position number layouts.  The reply by woodguy62 is accurate.  These error notes were printed in position 43 (X-3), 9696000-9703999.

Here is my opinion.  Mismatched serial numbers can be created in two ways.  The number reels can become loose or stuck during the course of printing a ream.  I call this a "spontaneous" mismatch.  Alternatively, the left and right sides could have been set incorrectly by the press operator.  I call this a "systematic" mismatch.  The number of error notes created by the systematic mismatch can be up to and including the total number of sheets printed in the ream, in this case 8,000.

But wait!  For these ELN notes, the mismatch was created by having the 6 on the left increased to a 7.  The first 4,000 notes printed should be 9696000-9699999, and they will probably all have the mismatch on the left (9796000-9799999).  For the next 4,000 notes, it is possible that the correct serial number was printed because the 6 on the right side clicked over to a 7 while the 7 on the left did not change, so 9700000-9739999 was printed on the left and right sides.  Also possible, the 7 on the left clicked over to an 8, creating a different mismatch with 9800000-9839999 on the left.  My gut tells me that the latter scenario did not happen, otherwise the press operator would have realized the error after the notes were printed, and these notes would never have been released.  So we're probably looking at a maximum of 4,000 error notes if the error was systematic.  There's no way to know for sure until more of these errors are found.

I hope this helps!

Mark

    No hay banda  
ikandiggit
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2009, 07:12:52 am »

Yes, thank you for the explanation!

The other question I have is that there was also another note found - ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800. This one has a 3 digit mismatch with the same prefix. I've come across a number of ELN notes which are correct. (I guess I should have been recording the serial numbers.... I'll start doing that now).  Is there a chance that this particular one is unique?
 

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