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Topic: Province of Canada  (Read 6404 times)
Seth
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« on: May 14, 2010, 03:01:24 am »

I don't like the placement of Province of Canada notes in the current Charlton.   All the provinces' notes are grouped together in the "provincial issues" section, which is fine.  But the Province of Canada is not included there; instead it is given its own prominent section right before the Dominion of Canada section.  IMO this is not appropriate.  The Province of Canada was one of three colonies (the other being NS and NB) that entered Confederation in 1867.  No one of the three colonies was superior to the other two.  But giving Province of Canada notes their own prominent section instead of putting them in the provincial issues section suggests just that - it insubordinates NS and NB to the Province of Canada.  This is historically inaccurate.

I think it would be better to group Province of Canada notes with the notes issued by other colonial governments of the time.  It would help to advance a more accurate understanding of colonial Canada.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 03:07:29 am by Seth »

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mmars
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 08:48:23 pm »

I'd rather see petty politicking kept out of the catalogue TYVM.

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Seth
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 11:04:46 pm »

I'd rather see petty politicking kept out of the catalogue TYVM.

Me too.  That's why I'd like it changed.

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alvin5454
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 11:29:27 pm »

I don't believe there is any intention of politics in the placement of this section. I would think it is there merely as the forerunner of the Dominion of Canada series and subsequent Bank of Canada series. Don't read anything into this other than sequence of bank notes....
Seth
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 02:24:45 am »

I don't believe there is any intention of politics in the placement of this section. I would think it is there merely as the forerunner of the Dominion of Canada series

...but that's the point.  The Province of Canada series wasn't "the" forerunner.  The Province of Canada's notes, together with the notes of NS and NB, were the equal three forerunners of the Dominion of Canada series, just as the Province of Canada, NS, and NB were the equal three forerunners of the Dominion itself.  I know this may be news to some of us, because we have all spent years if not decades with our Charlton catalogues that paint a different picture.

It is a misconception among many Canadians that the Province of Canada was the "main" forerunner to the Dominion, and that the other provinces were subordinate to it.  The misconception spills over to the numismatic and philatelic community too.  Province of Canada coins, notes, and stamps get prominent placement at the front of the book as "the" forerunners to the Dominion issues, while issues by the other (equal) provinces get relegated to the appendices at the back of the book.

Politics or not, structuring the catalogue in such a way does a disservice to historical fact and it really should be changed.

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Australia
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 10:05:40 am »

 I always thought that these were the  first Provincial Notes were used as the first set of Dominion Notes, since the first set Provincial notes were issued only nine months ( according to the Charlton Catalogue) before confederation.  Then these notes were supplied post 1867 have the Toronto with St. John overprint.   

Although some of early debentures issues and Bank of Montreal over prints should be with the other provincial issues.  I would only think it has been put in this section because of its overlap with Dominion Notes and convenience.

I would doubt Charlton would ever change because its just a catalogue where purchasers are more interested in pricing than anything anyway - they have a hard enough time getting that right let alone changing the notes into different categories.  Why else would people buy the same catalogue year after year.

It's just a catalogue.
Seth
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 06:09:52 pm »

Last post.

Nobody is saying the catalogue is offensive.

The catalogue does endeavour to include pertinent historical information about Canada.  I continue to be impressed by the amount and the quality of interesting historical information that is found throughout the catalogue.

But there is always room for improvement.  If the catalogue publishers wish to have the catalogue include historically accurate information about Canada, I strongly suggest that the editors have a look at the arrangement of Province of Canada notes with respect to the notes of the other colonial governments of the time.  Because the current placement's elevation of the Province of Canada above the other colonies is not historically accurate.

I'm not bitter, I'm not offended, I'm not trying to stir up a controversy.  I am trying to use this forum for its intended purpose; which is to suggest improvements to the catalogue that we all use.

I fully expected my original post to be met with some disagreement, skepticism, and disbelief, even.  But I certainly didn't expect scorn and belittling.  If that's what happens when I try to make a constructive suggestion for improvement then I sure won't be contributing any further to this sub-forum.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 06:44:19 pm by Seth »

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mmars
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 06:45:49 pm »

If the Province of Canada issues are given prominence, it's probably because Canada before 1867 was the Province of Canada, not the other provinces.  Maybe it's that word "Canada" that makes the Province of Canada seem so much more important.  Nova Scotia was not part of Canada prior to 1867.  New Brunswick was not part of Canada prior to 1867.  To suggest otherwise is revisionist history, and you can only expect to tap into strong feelings if you want to rewrite history.  Sure, you can propose revising history to suit a politically correct objective, but don't act surprised when someone takes you up on your ideas.  You're an experienced member of the forum and can probably contact the editorial board of the catalogue with your ideas.  The fact that you put these ideas on the forum suggests to me that you want to take an informal survey of opinions rather than just giving yours quietly to the editor.  I'm not sure that's proper use of this board.  From what I understand after reading the Charlton update guidelines, users are to suggest obvious errors and omissions.  I don't agree that your proposal is to fix an error.  This is more of a debate and should be put to a poll, possibly on another one of the forum boards.  A poll would effectively end the "I'm right you're wrong" bickering that is making some people feel belittled.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 07:06:53 pm by mmars »

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BWJM
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 10:12:33 pm »

Let's not argue about whether or not this is the right forum to put something in. That's a moderator's job, and I assure you that several have seen this thread already.

While I certainly cannot and do not speak for Charlton Press nor the Editor, the following is my personal opinion.
Seth, you may be right from a historical sense, but I believe that the costs and other consequences of rearranging of the catalogue would outweigh what little historical value can be gained. Coin collectors have been including the 1858-59 provincial coins in their Canadian decimal sets since coin collecting began. Furthermore, the Province of Canada notes were the first notes to be considered Dominion notes after Confederation in 1867 and filled that role for the next several years until the first official Dominion notes were issued in 1870. In my opinion, that usage alone as the first official currency of the newly formed Dominion of Canada should be sufficient to justify their perceived prominence above the Nova Scotia and New Brunswick notes of the same pre-Confederation period.

In the end, is it really that big a deal? Don't worry about it. Personally, I have more important things to deal with.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 07:41:52 pm by BWJM »

BWJM, F.O.N.A.
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