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Topic: Charlton missing radar category  (Read 1011 times)
coinboy
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« on: February 13, 2021, 03:30:26 pm »

Can anyone explain why there is no category for 1979 5 and 20 dollar 2 digit radars for the last 7 digit numbers like there is for the 3/4 digit last 7 digit number radars?

walktothewater
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2021, 06:09:07 pm »

Is this for the 32nd Ed? My 31st Ed has it.

coinboy
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2021, 07:13:14 pm »

Yes it is. I missed a few years and my last the 29th didn't have it either, so I thought it was an ongoing miss.

BWJM
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 11:04:24 pm »

These notes are listed on page 383 of the 31st edition.  See scan.

BWJM
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coinboy
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2021, 07:56:20 am »

Yes I have seen that. But that is  for all 11 digits, what about 2 digit with the last 7 numbers. Look at the 3-4 digit radars to see what I mean. Ps good to talk, it's been a while.

BWJM
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2021, 11:28:09 am »

Yes I have seen that. But that is  for all 11 digits, what about 2 digit with the last 7 numbers. Look at the 3-4 digit radars to see what I mean. Ps good to talk, it's been a while.
My understanding is that the figures on p383 as shown above are for the last 7 numbers of the 11-number serial number 1979 notes.  They are approximately as plentiful (proportionally) as other two-digit radar notes.

If you were to find a 2-digit radar encompassing the entire 11 digits, it would be incredibly rare.  Indeed, there are only 50 possible such "2-digit super radars".  A "super radar" is the term given to a radar note that uses all 11 digits, eg: 56786668765 as shown on p384.  Fun fact, two of those 50 "2-digit super radars" would be 3300 test notes: 33000000033 and 33000300033.  The remaining 48 are split evenly between the 3000, 5000 and 5600 series.

It is worth noting that the same understanding applies to the solid numbered notes on p382.  The line for the 1979 11-digit notes applies to only notes having the last 7 digits all being the same.  Thus, 52052222222 would be considered a solid note with the provided pricing.  There are no "super solid" notes with all 11 digits being the same (with the exception of all-zero specimen notes).
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 11:44:45 am by BWJM »

BWJM
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BWJM
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2021, 11:36:43 am »

Here are all possible two-digit 1979 super radars:

$5 regular issue - BC-53a Lawson/Bouey
30000000003
30000300003
30003030003
30003330003
30030003003
30030303003
30033033003
30033333003
30300000303
30300300303
30303030303
30303330303
30330003303
30330303303
30333033303
30333333303

$5 test notes - BC-53aT Lawson/Bouey
33000000033
33000300033

$20 regular issue - BC-54a Lawson/Bouey (CBN)
50000000005
50000500005
50005050005
50005550005
50050005005
50050505005
50055055005
50055555005
50500000505
50500500505
50505050505
50505550505
50550005505
50550505505
50555055505
50555555505

$20 regular issue - BC-54c-i Thiessen/Crow (BABN)
56555555565
56555655565
56556565565
56556665565
56565556565
56565656565
56566566565
56566666565
56655555665
56655655665
56656565665
56656665665
56665556665
56665656665
56666566665
56666666665

BWJM
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coinboy
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2021, 12:57:48 pm »

I see what you are saying with solid numbers, so for clarity why don't they put last 7 digits. Again I have to disagree about the 2 digit #'s as there is clearly 2 different possibilities just as there is for the 3-4 digits. Seems compared to other issues, closest would be Multicoloured the $400. & $500. value for a 7 number 2 digit is high. What would be the value of the super radar 2 digit?

Seth
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2021, 01:21:34 pm »

Maybe Charlton no longer considers last-7-digits to be a legitimate radar note for the 1979 series. 30001234321 never seemed any more legit than 30012344321, 30000123321, 30123454321, or 300000001221 to me. The "Super radars" that BWJM posted are the only legitimate ones IMO, so I for one agree with the removal of the 7-digit listings. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 01:25:04 pm by Seth »

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coinboy
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2021, 01:30:49 pm »

That's in part my point about the post, the catalogue just is not clear. The catalogue implies what you are saying for solid and 2 digit, but then when you look at 3-4 digit radars opens the door to 7 number radars, can't have it both ways. Just want clarity.

BWJM
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2021, 02:41:26 pm »

What would be the value of the super radar 2 digit?

Determined between buyer and seller.  The notes are sufficiently rare that any pricing provided by the catalogue would just be a shot in the dark.

I believe that my interpretations as mentioned above are the original intentions of the editor (at least the preceding one) of the Charlton GPM catalogue.  That said, I do not speak for them.  Could the catalogue be made more clear on the matter?  Perhaps.  Maybe I'll see what I can do.

Aside from my comment about the value of 2-digit super radars, I don't wish to comment on the pricing assigned to any of these notes.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions on the matter, as am I, but I'll keep those opinions to myself at this time ;)

BWJM
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coinboy
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2021, 03:40:26 pm »

"I believe that my interpretations as mentioned above are the original intentions of the editor (at least the preceding one) of the Charlton GPM catalogue.  That said, I do not speak for them.  Could the catalogue be made more clear on the matter?  Perhaps.  Maybe I'll see what I can do."

That would be great, the Charlton is the bible and anything that can be done to make it clear in this area would be a benefit to all.

BWJM
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2021, 05:50:03 pm »

On page 381 at the bottom is a paragraph entitled "1979 Palindrome Notes".  I'll quote it here:

Quote
1979 PALINDROME NOTES

The Bank of Canada issued $5 and $20 notes dated 1979, which have 11-digit numbers on their backs (BC-53 and BC-54). The final seven digits are considered the serial number, while the first four digits identify the printer, series, and any special purpose of the notes. A "normal" radar note is one for which the final seven digits read the same backward and forward. Such notes are priced in this section. If all eleven digits read the same backward and forward, the note is called a "super radar". Such are very rare indeed (100 times rarer than 7-digit radars), and pricing should be arranged between the buyer and the seller. There are no "solid" super radar notes.

Drawing out a couple of key points:
  • The pricing tables are intended to convey only "normal" radar notes using the last 7 digits
  • Pricing for "super radars" of any variety should be determined between the buyer and the seller
  • Super radars are quite rare
That said, a suggestion to the editor for additional clarification in the pricing tables has been submitted, in case the reader neglects to stumble upon the above paragraph and consults only the pricing tables.

The same logic ought to be applied to other classes of special serial number notes including ladders, millions, etc.  Only the last 7 digits are considered.  Should you find something that uses the entire 11-digits, well, perhaps you've got something rare. ;)

BWJM
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coinboy
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2021, 07:55:28 pm »

Thanks for that B. It just goes to show a person (me) needs to actually read the words in the preface in the Charlton and not just skip through to the numbers.

Seth
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2021, 08:41:22 pm »

the Charlton is the bible

I disagree. It's just a price guide; the opinions of a few. The note values and other content of the price guide should reflect the reality of what people as a whole are collecting, but for many collectors it seems to work the other way around. I think that a big chunk of what is in the Charlton guide is bunk, tbh.

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