1000$ 1954

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Hello,

I am new to this forum. I just received a 1000$ dollar bill from my grand-mother and I was wondering what it might be worth.
It is a 1954 modified, BC-44d, signatures Lawson-Bouey, serial A/K0786074.
I would say it is a grade F. It also has stapples perforations in 2 places but not on the designs per se.

I also have a 1$ special serie 1867-1967, BC-45a, signatures Beattie-Rasminsky, grade almost AU.

I you could help me. I am very new to this. In fact I started my reseaches today.
Thank you
Jud

Your $1000 note is worth $1050 in F, and your 1867-1967 $1 note is worth $3.

Too bad your $1000 note is not UNC....   Its worth $2400 in UNC.

In fact, not even $1,050. As the Lawson-Bouey $1,000 issue is the most common out of all $1,000 ever issued in Canada.

No matter what happens the note will always be worth at least $1000.   But it should be worth $1050 because it says in the 18th edition book under Fine.. Also if someone had this note in Fine I don't think they would sell it for less then $1050... They would want to make some money out of the note.

I will try to attach a scanned copy of it.
If you have time to look at it, you could tell me if my grading was correct.

Thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]

I don't mean to take the wind out of your sales, but most collectors would never tie up $1000 in a F $1000 Lawson Bouey note.   Remember that note is worth $1000.00 (which can be used to buy so many more impressive notes). If you were to take it to a show, or to a local club with paper money collectors, it would hardly be worth a passing glance. The condition is too poor (which I think you graded quite correctly-- but it also has staple holes) to be sellable.  The Charlton guide may say that a note in fair condition is worth $1050, but this is a very generous estimate, which is idealistic, and not too realistic in today's market.  Just try to find a buyer!  Even $100 to $1000 notes in  VF ot EF are not easy to sell (unless exceptionally rare-- which this is not), and end up costing the seller considerable fees if he tries to sell it online.  This note may have high personal value to you (left to you by your grandmother) but it would have very low personal/investment value to anyone else.

My advice to you (if you wish to take it) is to use that money to buy some rare lower denominations.  

One thousand bucks can buy a great "starter collection."  

Here is a good general rule of thumb you can count on:  First, look at your collection in terms of investment value (IV) and personal value (PV).  The key is to find a "happy balance." Notes that have high IV are UNC, rare, and easy to sell.  Notes with high PV are notes that are valuable to you (eg: birthdate, special numbers, 3- 4 dig radars, found/character notes, UNC common sequential notes, variations or anomalies, etc).  

Next, consider notes in terms of condition (from low VG, medium VF to high UNC)  Although the IV and PV of your collection are concepts that are related, they're not necessarily equivalent.  An UNC 3 digit radar might be meaningless to me, but if it can be made into a set for another collector, it would have high PV to them.  Most affordable notes have a bit of both but you can get a lower graded note (with less IV) such as a Fine 1937 narrow panel $1.00 H/A for $150 and you would do well. That's because its an easy note to sell. Plus it would leave you with $850 to invest in other notes.

A good investment note could also be a $50 devil's face in UNC, but that would wipe out your $1000 (plus some change) in a single transaction.  Your collection would consist of only 1 note so the personal value of your collection would be less (you have less to take pride in).  So the idea is to balance your collection with good personal value and investment value notes while always trying to get the best condition you can afford.     If you start with lower denominations you can get a good (AU to UNC) note of each Devil's face, and still have cash to purchase Modified, and subsequent (or earlier 1937) series.  

Arm yourself with information.  If you're unsure what to buy: ask someone you would consider fairly knowledgable (perhaps, but not necessarily, a dealer).  You should set yourself some goals (ie: to fulfill a certain set of notes, going up to a specific denomination - ten$ or twenty$ is best when you start)

Tune into CPMF (as you're doing), get yourself a Charlton (at the library-- then eventually buy one), go to a coin shop (to buy some note holders/pages) and shows, and trade your cash for large amounts of lower denominations at the bank.  Discover today's notes (what's hot what's not) and try to get them in the best condition you can afford.  Keep searching for notes and learn which ones are worth keeping. You may have a few rare finds.  You also may want to try online auctions, and buy from established members/sellers here on this site.

Good luck!

 

 

I have a few 1954 $1000s all in AU++/UNC. Most are Lawson/Bauey, and one Beattie/Ras. Should I just sell off the Lawson/Bauey notes? They are higher grade notes, but if they are too common and not worth much over face, should I just get rid of them? I should be able to get $1,100-1,200 each for these notes, right?

The thing to remember is that these bills have been floating around for a long time (Theissen /Crow signatures on the 1954 series indicates they were around even when the multi-colored/ series was issued 1970-80).  People have stashed these kind of notes (and $100/$50's) in their safety deposit boxes ever since there was such a thing.  Older collectors might say to hold onto them because they got a 1937 $1000 (in the 50'/60's) that fetched them a good trade or premium (since all 37 $1000 were Osborne/Towers-- and these were issued late too).  Thousand dollar notes are often issued late --well into the next series (because of their extensive shelf life) and now are no longer being issued.  So some collectors think they're worth holding onto (just for the novelty sake).   But I don't know any serious collector who has the notes you're referring to.  A serious collector would only stick to 35's, 1937, a Devil's , and MAYBE Thiessen-Crow $1000 (perhaps) or the Bird's EKX.   In my opinion, you'd be smart to unload those $1000 ASAP.  You don't see them at shows (no interest) and rarely do they sell well online.  They automatically stick you with a considerable final value, listing fee, so they're costly to sell.   There are so many more valuable and interesting notes you can convert that money into.  The trick is finding a buyer!  Good luck my friend.

(Theissen /Crow signatures on the 1954 series indicates they were around even when the multi-colored/ series was issued 1970-80).

I don't quite understand this statement.  Wouldn't Thiessen-Crow signatures on a 1954 $1000 note indicate the note was printed between October 27, 1987 (when Thiessen became Deputy Governor) and May 4, 1992 (when the Birds $1000 note was introduced)?

The thing to remember is that these bills have been floating around for a long time (Theissen /Crow signatures on the 1954 series indicates they were around even when the multi-colored/ series was issued 1970-80).  People have stashed these kind of notes (and $100/$50's) in their safety deposit boxes ever since there was such a thing.  Older collectors might say to hold onto them because they got a 1937 $1000 (in the 50'/60's) that fetched them a good trade or premium (since all 37 $1000 were Osborne/Towers-- and these were issued late too).  Thousand dollar notes are often issued late --well into the next series (because of their extensive shelf life) and now are no longer being issued.  So some collectors think they're worth holding onto (just for the novelty sake).   But I don't know any serious collector who has the notes you're referring to.  A serious collector would only stick to 35's, 1937, a Devil's , and MAYBE Thiessen-Crow $1000 (perhaps) or the Bird's EKX.   In my opinion, you'd be smart to unload those $1000 ASAP.  You don't see them at shows (no interest) and rarely do they sell well online.  They automatically stick you with a considerable final value, listing fee, so they're costly to sell.   There are so many more valuable and interesting notes you can convert that money into.  The trick is finding a buyer!  Good luck my friend.

I personally like the $ 1000's. They are tough to collect for sure. I have 3 of 5 which I am going to bother to collect. I have the 1937 which happens to be one of my favorite notes of all. I have kept a Lawson Bouey UNC64 from that series and I have a replacement EKX from the Birds. The two others I would like to get are the 1935 and the Devils' Face.

The 1954 series is very interesting. All the 3 pre Lawson Bouey signatures from the modified are not all that common at all. I don't think I have seen one in close to a year. The numismatic value would be a lot higher if those signatures were lower value notes.

Consider the printed #'s

Beattie Coyne - 32,000
Beattie Rasmin - 60,400
Bouey Rasmin - 96,000

Pretty Low

Consider some other BOC notes in the same printing numbers

1935 $ 20 French - 202,000
1935 $ 25 English - 140,000
1935 $ 1000 Eng - 66,500

The market is smaller for the $ 1000's for sure. But there also is not many around once you get past the Lawson Bouey and non replacement Birds.

Venga50:

Wouldn't Thiessen-Crow signatures on a 1954 $1000 note indicate the note was printed between October 27, 1987 (when Thiessen became Deputy Governor) and May 4, 1992 (when the Birds $1000 note was introduced)?

 Yes you're right-- so these notes wouldn't be released until much later. Thiessen/Crow's term was 1987-1994 so these notes could have been released as late as 1994 (or later).  

The signatures of higher denominations "50,100.1000,...began to be applied by lithographic press" (p248 Charlton).  In other words the notes were printed and later the signatures were applied.  Although the Bird's 1000 also have Thiessen/Crow signatures they could have been stockpiled and released later (which was common BOC practice for high denominations).  

Re: 1935 $1000 notes: "the $1000 notes enjoyed by far the greatest longevity.  It was not until January 1952 that the old 1935-dated $1000 notes were superseded by the 1937 dated notes."(218- Charlton)

Re: 1937 "the 'new' $1000 notes had been printed in 1937 and had been kept in reserve stockpile of the Bank of Canada over the years, as indicated by the Osborne-Towers signatures" (p232 Charlton) These were released when the lower denominations of the "new" 1954 series were being released.

Buxvet

I personally like the $ 1000's

I stand corrected (Buxvet is a serious collector!).  There are collectors out there who do collect these notes.  
What I wrote was strictly my opinion and as such should be treated with a grain of salt!

The majority of 1935 notes were actively recalled so it is difficult to compare printed numbers (especially those notes)-- to determine rarity.   Also its a bit of a stretch to compare relatively low denominations (20/25) with high denominations since lower denominations experience considerable more wear and tear with everyday use.   My point still remains that all $1000 notes were released later than their lower denomination (counterparts), and that they naturally experience a fraction of the wear/circulation.   Small hoards have been found in safety deposit boxes (and are likely to continue surfacing) since people will store cash away for a rainy day (or their heirs!).  If you value them -- then by all means keep them.  My opinion is strictly aimed at those with lower grade notes, and who may be interested in turning them into collectible lower denominations.  1954 $1000 are still found at casinos.

You are right James
Beyond the Devil's Face and 35 + 37 there is very little market for $ 1000's.

It's a bit of specialty beyond collecting...

I wonder what % of collectors actually collect $ 1000 notes.
I bet it is fairly low. 20% ?  more.........

I would go with under 20% I think we shoud start a poll  Arthur

I would go with under 20% I think we shoud start a poll  Arthur

Sure maybe someone who has poll starting powers   can start one

1. No I don't collect $ 1000
2. Yes I have 1 $ 1000 Note
3. Yes I have 2 $ 1000 Notes
4. Yes I have 3 or more $ 1000 Notes

Here's the description for a $1000 Beattie/Coyne offered in this coming TICF auction (from CCN vol44 no11):

"Uncirculated. This note is rare and underrated. Only a few examples are known.  Most of the 1954 $1000 notes encountered on the market are with the Lawson-Bouey signature. This note is as rare as the Devil's face and even better in our opinion.  We have handled and seen many more Devil's face than this rare Beattie-Coyne $1000 note.  In our last TNS sale and EF-AU example with a pen mark sold for $3450. The cataloguer strongly believes that this underated and truly sleeper should sell anywhere from $4000 to $5000"
Note that the Charlton book value is $3500 (and 32,000 printed)

and here's the description for the Devil's face $1000:
"Uncirculated.  Well centered.  Bright with vibrant colours.  Very rare in this condition. Worth a premium bid."
BV = $11,500 (30,000 printed)

IMO:  I've never seen a modified that looks as nice as a DF (the queen from the original Karsh portrait with all the subtle textures just looks richer) and all $1000 notes are over-rated by their sellers!

And whenever a description is that long of a particular note, I get suspicious.  I prefer the succinct description of the Devil's face.  It doesn't need hype.  It sells itself.  That's if you're collecting these kind of notes.  However, if I had 4 to 11 G's (to blow on rare notes) these notes would be the last notes I would consider investing my hard earned cash.  
At the TCIF alone you've got:  
A) super rare UNC 1954 $2 replacement devil face (est 9 - 10,000)
B) AU 1935 $25 English test (est9200-10000)
C) rare Devil's face match set #0000393 $1.00 to $100.00 notes (est 5000-6000)
to chose from with that kind of dough...

And note I'd still have some change to spare!