The End of our hobby? Doomed?

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

Rob,

Yes, we certainly live in interesting times as they say... where the flux of society and the way we function is a changing landscape indeed.

I do agree that a cashless society will be the way to go. Even thoughts of how much it costs for the production, maintenance, and retention of a cash society would be meaningful enough reasons to move towards a society.

Aside from the hypothetical debates of where our hobby will be in this future cashless society... it will be even more interesting to see how this change will come about. I wonder what governments will survive the transition from - I don't want to declare all the cash i have on hand to - all I own is on this digital doo hickey thing I carry around my neck thingy...

It will be an interesting transition also because of our diversified population in Canada where we have new canadians who traditionally assume financial transaparency is "okay" and doesn't hurt anyone...

I wonder if this will also be the end of those darn "squeegy people" at the intersections....

Anyways... yes, its a definate topic of intrigue and importance for us to follow-considering the proponents of our hobby and those of us that believe that Canadian Banknotes are also on the verge of a boom on the horizon...

Perhaps a side bet should be in order... another topic we'll need to discuss the next time we meet for coffee...lol...

Best Regards,

Steve

Rob...

Just to add... another aspect of your initial subject.... NOW... what if this were to take place... the transition to a cashless society... and the government decided it was neccessary to "expropriate" per se... reclaim all legal tender.... including collectables... can you imagine this!

That would definately be the end of our hobby per se... unless we were all willing to go underground whereby numismatic shows are held in dark and dank underground meeting places and secret codes given as to times and location.

Sad to say, but just like real estate, when the government wants it, they'll take it.

Now wouldn't that be something.

Rob...

Just to add... another aspect of your initial subject.... NOW... what if this were to take place... the transition to a cashless society... and the government decided it was neccessary to "expropriate" per se... reclaim all legal tender.... including collectables... can you imagine this!

That would definately be the end of our hobby per se... unless we were all willing to go underground whereby numismatic shows are held in dark and dank underground meeting places and secret codes given as to times and location.

Sad to say, but just like real estate, when the government wants it, they'll take it.

Now wouldn't that be something.

So would a nuclear war be the end of paper money and numismatics in general. Such things as government seizing all cash is unlikely, but one never knows with our current governments.

Rick

Now that is a thought that has never x'd my mind Steve,confiscation-wow,scary stuff!

If in doubt of the plans,the inevitable is coming,here is a few Lou Dobbs expose' of our New currency and Union

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBmFrYWPoG8&search=North%20American%20Union


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U&mode=related&search=North%20American%20Union

Congressman Ron Paul:
"The ultimate goal is not simply a superhighway, but an integrated North American Union – complete with a currency, a cross-national bureaucracy, and virtually borderless travel within the Union. Like the European Union, a North American Union would represent another step toward the abolition of national sovereignty altogether."

I've been reading the predictions that cash will disappear and be replaced with cashless electronic transactions with amusement.

The predictions remind me of the predictions made in the 1950's about the future.  By 2000, robots were supposed to do all of the work, freeing up all of us to be on perpetual vacations.  THAT certainly didn't happen.  People work harder now than they ever did before.

I don't mean to belittle others' responses, but the whole "cash will disappear" scenario just seems too far fetched to me.  Even in the unlikely scenario that banknotes and coins will be withdrawn, people will hoard bullion and other tangible items to be used as cash replacements.  

Well Rick,

Although history does not portend the (our) future,it can be a guide for lessons learned.
And even if cashless is not a foregone conclusion,shouldn't organizations
 like CPMS,CAND,ONA,ect take an official stand against the possibility that the hobby could see  irreparable damage from such a development?

We know from history that gold bullion was illegal to own in the United States till the 70's,confiscated via decree,Presidential,that armed gaurds stood in banks as one opened safety deposit boxes to see what they could see,if you had an ouce of gold it was confiscated for the going rate at the time.
When this North American Union is complete,they could very well indeed confiscate gold as a terrorist tool to fund illegal operations.
Matter a fact,I've seen a few news stories like that already.Setup?

Paper,that's easy.

Heck,Hudson will have to join the OPP Forensics Division for a new hobby. (I dont fully understand Hudsons work,but I know it's work,and alot of it! Kudos to Huds)

the grand plan is a cashless society.His contacts in the banking industry are Tier 1 people,and he tells me the Banks do not OFFICIALLY endorse this policy,as they would have a PR problem of epic porportions.There idea is to FUND orginizations that advocate cashless society,slowly but surely.

You know Rob this doesn't surprise me.  I got some "inside" info from a very reliable source who also thinks that the BOC will cancel all currency under this scheme.  Just because the bank cancels the currency doesn't mean it would try to reclaim/recall all notes.  The argument to switch to electronic card money is a strong and convincing one-- esp in terms of what it can do to thwart organized crime,  and how it can keep tabs on taxes due.  (He offered the same arguments you've posted) When I first heard his idea I scoffed.  But the more I think about it...the more I can see the trend, and the pressures to make it happen.

But the overall thing (as collectors) we should keep in mind is this:  who in their right mind would demand $25.00 for a French 1935 $25.00 note.  If the note is cancelled...does it make it any less rare (or desirable) as a cultural artifact?  I think not.  Perhaps there might be a small jolt of nervous selling, and a market recession but I believe that it would be a temporary blip- that would soon recover.  In fact, if paper money becomes a thing of the past...wouldn't that make it all the more valuable?  Wouldn't that increase the average Joe's interest in something he/she's taken for granted all along?  It could well mean that all those millions of 1973 $1.00 notes might actually be worth something!  (Look at French playing card money!)  Just like polymer has done for the paper note collectors in Australia...perhaps the phasing out of paper money can make asterisk, and rare notes all the more pricey.  But I do believe that we'll see polymer cash before they phase out paper cash.  And the following is my reason:

I predict a very strong resistance to the whole scheme.   As you stated its a grand plan supported by our financial institutions.  This is the natural order of things in the business world where fiscal policy deals in large financial transactions.  Rarely are any business deals conducted in cash (Cash Li excepted).

In the lives of ordinary citizen X... there are many more financial transactions that go on in a micro scale.   The government must be accountable to the will of the people, and if there's growing resistance, the government will defer to their wishes.  If you think of the value of a cent...and how it continues to be minted...than I'm sure you can easily see my point.  Even under the pressure of inflation coinage will continue...and that's due to its necessity.  Necessity- not the grand schemes of financiers-- will determine the currency of a society.

I also suspect there'll be greater resistance in the states where people associate their freedom with cash even more than their right to bear arms.   We'll see a switch to polymer, or maybe even smart (RF) chipped higher denominations, but I doubt we'll see cash phased out in our lifetime.   I can think of many schemes and grand plans of governments/organizations in the past...that never came to fruition.  Its the context of the economy that will rule... not just the stakeholders.

Fascinating walktothewater.More confirmation and evidence seems to be mounting.
Could be a bloody shame for our hobby,
Hope not!

You don't have to look too far to see the pressures mounting towards a cashless society.  Take that American commerical that's on the air right now.
I goes something like this: A bunch of animated people lined up in orderly fashion buying things for Xmas from a Dr Seuss like store, and everything is running like clockwork until a customer puts cash on the counter, and everything stops.   Everything gets backlogged and there's momentary chaos in this store's scheme of things.  You then hear the plug for a debit card, and see a happy store clerk swipe a card through the machine, and the whole clock like system is up and running again - with customers handing their cards over, and quickly moving along the queue, and so happy with their purchases.  I forget what exactly the final narrative line in the ad is... but it runs something like: "In a perfect world, Why use cash when there's your ___ card?"

Most Financial advisors who counsel people in debt recommend:
1) cutting up your debit/credit card (and consolidating your debts with 1 loan)
2) making up a budget and sticking to it
3) using cash so you're more aware of exactly how much you're parting with

As we all know-- there's a lot of debt load in Canada and the US.  Funny how banks (with $30 billion a year of profits and still charging Canadians ATM fees!) are the biggest advocates of a cashless society.  I wonder who's side they're on when they come up with these grand schemes?