1939 Commercial Bank "Trinidad" $20

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1939 Commercial Bank "Trinidad" $20 FINE

Recently tried to bid on this note with what I taught would be a very aggressive bid and did not even come close to being the highest bidder.

The note books at $600 in Fine and this one had 2 tears. I bid $600 US + the 20% hammer fees 15% tax and 10% exchange rate ($915 CAN) and no deal its got 3 higher bids.  Am I missing something? Is the outstanding number or remaining note much scarcer than book leads to beleive?

Just looking for some opinions

Thank
Jason

Jason,

It is my understanding that the bid order showing on an eBay Live auction is not an indication of who
has placed the highest bid.  Since this is a live auction the mail and eBay bids are not examined until
just before the start of the auction to determine who is the current high bidder.

That becomes the starting point for the floor bidders.

If you look at the Heritage auction site you will see that the current high bid is US $450 (US $517.50 with
bidders premium).

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=436&Lot_No=12884

By placing multiple eBay Live bids you have only raised the amount of your maximum bid.  Your original
bid may have been enough to win this item but now you have increased your likelyhood.

If anyone believes that I am incorrect in my assumptions please feel free to comment.  My comments are
based on my past experience with eBay Live auctions.

...Arthur 

I seem to be having the same problem, I`m biding book prices (not including s&h or buyers premium) and I`m not even close. I also talked to a couple of other people and they are saying the same thing, it just seems to be getting harder and harder to find a good deals.


harwil4u2

Bids placed on an eBay Live auction prior to the start of the actual live auction are called  "absentee bids".

Approved bidders can place absentee bids up to one hour before the live event begins. When the auction starts, we will then process all the absentee bids and calculate what the winning absentee bid is. The winning absentee bid equals the second highest bid plus one bid increment. This value will be communicated to the auctioneer.

What this means is that the high absentee bid is never calculated prior to the start of the auction and the order
that bidders appear in the eBay live auction prior to the start of the auction is not related to who is the high bidder.

Once you find a lot on which you want to bid, sign up to participate in that auction. After you're approved, go back to the lot page and input the maximum amount you are willing to pay for that lot - that is your absentee bid.

By placing multiple eBay Live bids prior to the start of the auction, all you are doing is increasing the maximum
for your absentee bid.  Your bids are not compared to those of other absentee bidders until the auction starts.

This eBay Live auction information can be reviewed at the following link:

http://pages.ebay.com/liveauctions/help/before/laabsentee.html

Thank you all for the info

This will serve as a good reference for future live auctions

Nonetheless I was not successful in winning this note 

Nonetheless I was not successful in winning this note 

Don't feel too badly as that note is a MAJOR WORLD RARITY and there are many collectors of British Colonial paper money who are interested in notes like that. Such a note appeals to both collectors of Canadian paper money as well as to collectors of British Colonial/Caribbean paper money. You may not see another issued example in the next 10 years or so!

Thanks for the heads up Ottawa. As usual you are always a tremendous help

I just had no idea that the note is so scarce as the book price would lead you to believe otherwise.

This will be a lesson well learned for the next time.

By the way, what price did the note sell for at the auction?

$600. It is odd that these ebay live auctions work like a tournament. The ebay bidders duke it out between themselves and then the high bidder competes against the floor and the heritage bidders so the underbidder for the ebay live sale is actually the Heritage bidder,  not the underbidder of the ebay auction. In theory, this should have gone above the $600 bid that one of the forum members indicates he placed on ebay.

The $20 1939 Canadian Bank of Commerce Trinidad note catalogues at US$1000.00 in Fine and $400 in Good in the Specialized Pick catalogue (no price shown for XF). The pre-1950 paper money of Trinidad (and of the other British Caribbean territories) is quite complicated. Notes were issued by several authorities, namely the Government of Trinidad, Barclays Bank (formerly the Colonial Bank), the Royal Bank of Canada, and the Canadian Bank of Commerce. On an overall basis, the notes of the Bank of Commerce are considerably scarcer today than the other issues as they were issued in much smaller quantities.

Another one of these $20 notes is illustrated below:

{http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3433819/2007/5/11/0.jpg}

The illustrated note was sold at The Stanley Gibbons Sale - Part V (Mail Bid Only) held by Herbert I. Melnick Inc. (of Rockville Center, Long island, New York) on December 20, 1982. The note was described as being "Lot 3760, Fine condition, all colors bright, except the serial numbers are quite faded". The estimate was $500-up, but I don't have the prices realized for that sale. The serial number in the illustration appears to be 12053 (last digit unclear, could possibly be a 2?).

All $20 Caribbean notes from the pre-1950 era are rare as $20 was the equivalent of just over £4 Sterling at the time and that amount of money had immense buying power in the Caribbean (one could buy a decent meal for just a few pennies). As is well known, it's usually the lowest denominations that survive today as those were the ones most likely to be brought back as tourist souvenirs ..... unfortunately, though, most tourists in those days brought back coins as souvenirs rather than notes.

I checked out the Heritage site and the note looks entirely original (never washed) although it does have a couple of unfortunate, albeit very repairable, edge tears. The Heritage site indicates that the final selling price was US$720 (about CDN$800) inclusive of the Buyer's Premium. It seems to me that the buyer received a very good deal. Another one that got away ..... !

{http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3433819/2007/5/11/1177279046706_377138.jpg}

I let this one get away quite willingly!  Scarce or not, it just does not interest me.

RP's comments illustrate an important point. The market value of any collectible is ultimately based on "supply and demand" and not on "rarity" alone. Rarity is certainly one factor (of many) in the overall equation but it's not the most important one by a long shot. There are several extremely rare and even unique Canadian notes on eBay (in eBay Stores) right now but they haven't sold in the longest longest time because the demand for those particular issues and/or varieties just doesn't exist, at least not at the prices being asked.

Effective selling is an art and it always comes down to accurate market research and skillful pricing. If a fixed-price item sells very quickly then it was probably underpriced (or priced just right) whereas if it doesn't sell in a long time then it's overpriced for today's market. These observations apply equally well to bourse shows, dealers' fixed-price catalogues, and eBay Stores.

About five years ago there was a retail shop dealer here in Ottawa who would perpetually price his material at "tomorrow's prices". However, he was unexpectedly taken ill and had to liquidate rapidly at "yesterday's prices". There's a moral to this story that everyone can learn from!
 

Some very interesting comments in the above thread. Ottawa-- your responses/discussions are always so illuminating! 

Effective selling is an art and it always comes down to accurate market research and skillful pricing. If a fixed-price item sells very quickly then it was probably underpriced (or priced just right) whereas if it doesn't sell in a long time then it's overpriced for today's market. These observations apply equally well to bourse shows, dealers' fixed-price catalogues, and eBay Stores.

About five years ago there was a retail shop dealer here in Ottawa who would perpetually price his material at "tomorrow's prices". However, he was unexpectedly taken ill and had to liquidate rapidly at "yesterday's prices". There's a moral to this story that everyone can learn from!

In other words: TIMING!

I have also noticed that whenever there is a "buzz" about a particular note (either on this forum, the CCN, or other mediums)  then theres always the shrewd dealer (or collector) who offers the same note for sale... and we see it hit the roof.  A little bit of good press over a series or specific note does wonders for its popularity (artful marketing?)  I know I've been swayed more than once myself.

I lived in Jamaica for two years and was aghast at how limp/dirty notes got there...with the grime and humidity.  Its no wonder some of these Caribbean notes are so popular.  I also read an article about the $2.00 (Bogle) Jamaican note in an American magazine last year and immediately wanted to get my hands on some (they're very pretty) just for nostalgic reasons.