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Topic: Re: BC-39aA-i 1954 $5 *R/C  (Read 2271 times)
friedsquid
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« on: May 15, 2007, 08:25:00 pm »

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And with a mintage of only 8,000.

I don't know if I missed something but is there not more than 8000 printed? ???
or just the
(Beattie Coyne range to 8000?) is what is being discussed.
I have an UNC *R/C0006268

[edit]Split topic from original thread in Charlton Updates. That forum is meant for reporting new finds ONLY, not discussions. This is so that the forum is kept neat and tidy and so that I don't develop a frustration level beyond reasonable proportions when trying to update various registries or determine whether or not information has made it into the latest Charlton guide. --BWJM[/edit]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 01:34:59 am by BWJM »



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
Gary_T
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 10:07:09 pm »

Quote
just the
(Beattie Coyne range to 8000?) is what is being discussed?

The title of the thread say's it all BC-39aA-i 1954 $5 *R/C this is what's being discussed. There are only 8,000 Beattie/Coyne *R/C printed and 128,000 *R/C Beattie /Rasminsky printed.

Yours numbered  *R/C0006268 would be Beattie/ Coyne.



« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 08:39:26 am by Gary_T »

Gary_T
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 11:54:48 pm »

This is all very interesting but I still don't get their pricing.

Why is it that RC with only 8000 Is only 500.00

Yet RC with 88,000 BABN  is 10x the notes but has a higher price of 750.00

Why?

I have to question the numbers as it does not make sense.

BC39a is 0000001-0088000 should be 0008000-0088000 since the first 8000 are allocated to BC39aA-i

0000001-0007385 or 8000 est.

How can both be listed together in BC39a if they are also a different printer.

And yet to make things even more confusing BC39bA are a different signatures but are again included as

they start at 0016094.

When I went to school there were a lot of numbers between 16,000 and 88,000

So what is the deal as there is no way there is 88,000

Numbers overlap by the thousands.

Whats the deal?

Dredge

Gary_T
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 01:17:19 am »

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Why is it that RC with only 8000 Is only 500.00

Yet RC with 88,000 BABN  is 10x the notes but has a higher price of 750.00

Why?
It's more about supply and demand, many more replacement notes were saved because they looked different with the asterisk.

Quote
BC39a is 0000001-0088000 should be 0008000-0088000 since the first 8000 are allocated to BC39aA-i
 
The first 8,000 of the 88,000 are not replacment notes. It is possible to have two notes with the same numbers and letters one with an asterisk and one without below R/C 0008000.

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How can both be listed together in BC39a if they are also a different printer

BC-39a is for BABN 88,000 notes BC-39a-i is for CBN the remaining 9,912,000 and BC39aA-i is for CBN replacement notes, so the letter i in the catalogue number denotes the printer.

Quote
And yet to make things even more confusing BC39bA are a different signatures but are again included as

they start at 0016094.

When I went to school there were a lot of numbers between 16,000 and 88,000

So what is the deal as there is no way there is 88,000

Numbers overlap by the thousands.

Whats the deal?

BC39bA start at 0016000 and end around 0143574 for a total of about 128,000 replacement notes.

Holy cow I'm getting a headache.

Gary_T
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2007, 04:55:55 am »

So if  I am getting this, then the BABN printed 0000001-88000
and CBN also printed from 0000001-8000est

So you could have a replacement note and standard note with the same number if you had them.

So for example let say BC45bA *LO7000084-7039997 40,000 est

Does that mean they are all replacement notes or are there actual standard notes mixed in with that.

Would a standard note within the replacements be consider at the same price?

Thanks for the info

Dredge



Gary_T
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2007, 09:17:15 am »

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So if  I am getting this, then the BABN printed 0000001-88000
and CBN also printed from 0000001-8000est

BABN printed R/C 0000001-R/C 0088000 with Cat.# BC-39a signed Beattie/ Coyne these are reg. notes.
CBN printed *R/C  0000001-*R/C 0008000 with Cat.# BC-39aA-i signed Beattie/ Coyne these are replacement notes.

Quote
So you could have a replacement note and standard note with the same number if you had them.
YES
Quote
So for example let say BC45bA *LO7000084-7039997 40,000 est

Does that mean they are all replacement notes
Yes you can tell this because there is a A added to the catalogue number

Quote
are there actual standard notes mixed in with that.
No. Standard notes are cat. number BC- 45b and are numbered L/O 7000000 - L/O 10000000. So as I said in my last post it is possible to have two notes with the same letters and numbers one being a replacement and the with no *

Quote
Would a standard note within the replacements be consider at the same price?
No. The only way regular note would be worth more is if you could find the person with the replacement note with the same number.

This has gotten way off topic maybe Brent would want to move it?

« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 09:19:07 am by Gary_T »

Gary_T
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 07:58:32 pm »

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dunno. I think that note was worth quite a bit. It's already a $ 500 note in a book that is 12 months old. And with a mintage of only 8,000. Add to that the low number and the Choice Unc status. And that notes doesn not surface all that often. I already have that note in AU/UNC but with a 4 digit serial. The *A/C has double mintage at 16,000 and has a book of $ 550.00.

You figure that note is going to be AT LEAST 550-600 in the next "guide" and it's a great note with a low serial. Sometimes you have to lead the market and not follow it. I wasn't the high bidder but I wasn't too far off.
 
 

I have to agree with Buxvet here. And yet:
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Clearly, the surviving population of B-C *R/C notes is high relative to the known serial number range.  Check BWJM's wiki site registry to be convinced of that.  All *R/C notes have low serial numbers.  I don't think those with numbers under 0001000 are inherently special as, statistically speaking, 1 out of 8 notes falls below 1000.  Maybe only notes below 0000100 should be "special" and command a premium

Is ALSO  true .... like the so-called low numbered *A/M.   
I'm not so sure the note is actually worth a $300 premium but an excellent investment -nevertheless. 
 
Quote
As for other B-C replacements,  ...  The only one I think may be scarce is the $20 denom
  Yes for the B-C $20 *A/E. The last time I saw an *A/D B-C $10 was 2 years ago and I bought it. I believe the *A/C is scarcer but it doesn't coincide neatly with other R/C signature sets. 

As Scott Semans suggests in his very astute essay (and in light of the new ONLINE market conditions) common notes are over-priced (according to book) while rarer notes aren't  (must let the market conditions decide). This is the one thesis in his essay that most would agree on. 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 08:08:12 pm by walktothewater »
DREDGE
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 02:44:47 pm »

Gary,

Quote
So for example let say BC45bA *LO7000084-7039997 40,000 est

Does that mean they are all replacement notes
Yes you can tell this because there is a A added to the catalogue number

are there actual standard notes mixed in with that.
No. Standard notes are cat. number BC- 45b and are numbered L/O 7000000 - L/O 10000000. So as I said in my last post it is possible to have two notes with the same letters and numbers one being a replacement and the with no *

I can understand that when there are more than one printer this is a possibility.

But with LO   ONLY CBN printed so how can you have a note with the same number as the one it replaced.

Thats like you telling me that I should be able to find the missing notes from my bricks that I am going through.

If it does not exist because it was destroyed, how do you intend on finding it.

Or are trying to convince me that they printed LO 7000001-1000000
And also printed *LO 7000084-7039997 thus there are 80,000 notes of LO between 7000001-7040000

And if there are standard notes within a replacement range printed by ONE printer then I would have to consider the range wrong as that just doesn't jive.

Would it not then need to be broken into 2 different ranges.

I waited to see if this part of the thread would be moved but hasn't been.

Dregde





Gary_T
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 03:27:25 pm »

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Or are trying to convince me that they printed LO 7000001-1000000
And also printed *LO 7000084-7039997 thus there are 80,000 notes of LO between 7000001-7040000
 
  I'm not trying to convince you of anything but fact is that there are 40,000 notes with the numbers *L/O 7000084-7039997 and another 40,000 notes with the numbers L/O7000001-7040000 without an asterisk printed and released in the group of notes numbered L/O 7000001-1000000, these *L/O replacement notes were used to replace many other prefixs such as M/O, O/O, P/O, R/O and S/O.

 So there were not 40,000 errors made in the first 3.mil. notes and for example the note numbered  *L/O 7039997 could have replaced S/O 8994520.

I hope you get what I'm trying to say but I have said the same thing three times so I don't know but if someone else wants to agree or disagree with me or try and explain it in a different way please do but I think I'm done.


Gary_T
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 06:45:50 pm »

Gary,
I am understanding you don't get me wrong.
I would then have say that the Charlton Catalogue is then not descriptive enough for the average layman to pick up a book an understand the concept of a replacement note covering a multiple ranges of prefixes.
Or even what those prefixes were.
I know that  I was convinced that they were only used for LO
Heck there could have been only 40 replacements in one of the prefixes.
Who knows how the 40,000 was broken and used.
By todays standards with insert replacements we have this info.
I only want clarification as to what is what as the book just does not cut it.
As a collector are you going tell me this is not concerning to you.
Sorry for the frustration and headache, I will not bother you with my questions.
Dredge

walktothewater
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2007, 12:01:22 am »

Unfortunately, it is a common assumption amongst new collectors that there is a 1 to 1 correlation between a note destroyed and its replacement. This simply isn't the case - and Charlton doesn't delve into the printer's replacement policies very deeply.  To replace spoiled notes is an expense-- not one which the printers wish to multiply by laborious micro-managing/nor accounting.  This has given rise to the current practice of insert replacements which are less expensive to produce than asterisks, or specially designated (X) prefixes. 

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I know that  I was convinced that they were only used for LO

Quote
As a collector are you going tell me this is not concerning to you


Your responses to Gary's attempts to clarify how replacement ranges are unrelated to normal note ranges are completely off-topic. This thread is about *R/C notes.

 

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