Author
Topic: CIBC teller informs me BoC not shipping any polymer $20s  (Read 6854 times)
tmort
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
« on: February 28, 2013, 09:15:02 am »

Was in a CIBC in Regina yesterday asking for some new polymer $20. The teller said BoC is not sending out new ones right now and all she had was circulated paper twenties.
Anyone else finding it tough to find new Poly's?



CPMS member
Seth
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 01:43:01 pm »

Interesting. I usually use HSBC ATMs, and they've been giving out almost all polymers $20s since November. Until my last visit; when I got all 2004s.

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
CA_Banknotes
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 04:22:33 pm »

It really depends. There's still an abundance of paper $20s and many ATMs are just giving those out. I'm find more to be a mix, but the ratio is still something around 80/20 paper/polymer mix.

But it seems that for some ATMs, the banks might be just having them dispense polymer notes. For example, in CIBC and Scotia's main branches in Toronto the machines only give out polymer notes.
FogDevil
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2013, 11:19:32 am »

The BoC is not shipping any Polymer $20s to that particular CIBC branch possibly because demand for new bills in some regions is lower after Christmas and before the spring.  I haven't seen any new Polymer $20 prefixes since BIJ was seen in my region before Christmas.  I have a feeling that the BoC may be trying to clear out any UNC Journey $20's in their inventory before they resume shipping any more polymer $20s, so that may be why the recycling of whatever $20s exists is prevalent at this time.

Another likely situation is possible:  I remember when the new $5 bill was released in 2002, they only sent those new $5's to my region until sometime in May that year when I first saw AOA, and I do remember getting crisp Birds $5 notes with ANS, ANT, and ANU prefixes during the spring and summer of 2002.  I even got crisp ANS $5's in October 2002, in fact!  I did not see any more activity in Journey $5's until November that year when I finally saw AOB for the first time.

So yeah, like was the case with the first Journey $5's in 2002, there probably is a number of Journey $20s still yet to be distributed before those regions finally see the Polymer $20s full time.

The new $10 bill coming out later this year will likely be the same case as with the $100 and $50 bills, though.  A lot of the Journey $10s will have been fully distributed by the time the Polymer version gets released.  I can see there being a mandatory recall of any existing Journey notes after the existing inventory of Journey notes in the BoC's vaults are cleared out.
tmort
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2013, 11:44:13 pm »

Good points Fogdevil. Is anyone getting new crisp Journey $20s from banks or ATM's?



CPMS member
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 12:41:20 am »

The BoC is not shipping any Polymer $20s to that particular CIBC branch

I read an article from BoC about the distribution of banknotes. From what I recall they do not ship to the branches. The note distribution is done through some main offices of the major banks regionally. The BoC supplies the notes to these main offices of the banks and then they are responsible for distributing it to their branches etc.

I may be wrong but I think that is how it is done.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Marc
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 01:29:21 pm »

Good points Fogdevil. Is anyone getting new crisp Journey $20s from banks or ATM's?

Well, this past weekend I took out $80 and got two FIP, two FIV (none UNC, all with multiple folds).  Today, from the same ATM, I took out $60 and they were AYR, BIC, and an old EYH.

Hit or miss everywhere, I would think.

Marc :)
CA_Banknotes
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 06:10:16 am »

Good points Fogdevil. Is anyone getting new crisp Journey $20s from banks or ATM's?

I got brand new, consecutive FIT and BIV notes from the ATM last week.
FogDevil
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 08:15:28 am »

I read an article from BoC about the distribution of banknotes. From what I recall they do not ship to the branches. The note distribution is done through some main offices of the major banks regionally. The BoC supplies the notes to these main offices of the banks and then they are responsible for distributing it to their branches etc.

Makes sense.  The main office the banks in my region get the banknotes shipped from probably have a lot of Journey $20s in stock that they have to clear out before they resume the distribution of Polymer $20s full time.  If I remember correctly, before seeing the Polymer $20 for the first time in my hometown, and I wasn't really paying close attention, but it's possible that the Journey $20's was probably still in the AU* prefixes but just starting the "Printed in 2010" run recently at that time.  If I recall, I could of sworn I saw really good quality AUF $20's in the final weeks before the Polymer $20's were first released.  And since my province has such a small population, as opposed to provinces with millions of residents, there tends to be skipping of prefixes, and jumping around as well.  On average, a denominational letter for the $20's sees so few series letters where I am as opposed to the bigger provinces.  So to sum it up, I'd say, given that the 2010 print year started somewhere in the AUC-AUD range and continues to AUT-AUU, and given the history of prefix skips where I live, and demand for the $20 is super high (despite that demand for the $20 recently started to decline), I'd say it may be August 2013 or afterwards before I see more Polymer $20 prefixes on a regular basis where I live.
FogDevil
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 01:41:23 pm »

Well, I do have to admit, I got a couple of BIN $20's in recent weeks.  They were both in the 3M range.  Guess it's safe to say that the Polymer $20s are coming back to release mode after a long winter dry spell for new prefixes.

Weird thing is, however, I was at a Scotiabank ATM not that long ago, withdrew $100 and got nothing but Journey $20s, already circulated.  So yeah, they're still around, and probably will be until at least 2015.
FogDevil
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 07:48:02 pm »

Apparently, I have seen new polymer $20 prefixes since early in the spring, and it seems as if the prefixes are coming in full force where I am.  I have seen BIM, BIN, BIP, BIS, BIT, BIU, and BIW so far.  But here's an interesting fact:  The next prefixes I have seen thus far are FIZ, and today I saw an FIY prefix.  No BS* prefixes out my way thus far.  I wonder if the speculation of nude women on the back of the BI* and BS* $20's is proven to be reality and is the reason why the BS* prefixes won't be appearing out my way?  Or is it because a vast majority of the BS* prefixes have been fully distributed in other provinces?
tmort
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 09:43:09 pm »

We are getting FIY in the 4m, 5m, and 9m ranges big time. No BS*  showing up here. A few FI* but not much.



CPMS member
FogDevil
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2013, 11:51:56 am »

We are getting FIY in the 4m, 5m, and 9m ranges big time. No BS*  showing up here. A few FI* but not much.

That makes two of us!  I happen to be one of those individuals who got an FIY in the 5-million range earlier this week.  There likely won't be any BS* prefixes coming our way.  BSU may be more probable, but most likely nothing else.  The BS* run could be in the running to become the first denominational series to be shut out significantly.  I did see BSL, but that's about it.  There'll probably be far more FS* prefixes than BS* prefixes out my way, methinks.
BWJM
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,981
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2013, 01:02:30 pm »

I'm not really sure what makes anyone think that there is some predetermined or deliberate geographic distribution of prefixes.

Bricks of notes get stored in piles, first at the printing company, then at distribution centres across the country.  Bricks get removed at random with no preference whatsoever for prefix, printing company, age, etc.  To the Bank of Canada, printing companies, distribution centres and financial institutions, one banknote is equivalent to all the others.  A brick of $20s is a brick of $20s no matter what the prefix.

So if Nova Scotia for example is getting all FIx notes and BC is seeing nothing but BSx notes, the most anyone should be saying about that is "huh... bit of a coincidence, I suppose, eh?"  It's nothing more than that.

Now if I'm wrong and someone can provide some authoritative evidence to say that there IS some big conspiracy going on to make sure certain areas of the country get (or don't get) certain prefixes, then I'd be amused to hear it.

BWJM
Member of CPMS, RCNA, ONA, ANA, IBNS, WCS.
Treasurer, Waterloo Coin Society.
Show Chair, Cambridge Coin Show.
Fellow of the Ontario Numismatic Association.
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2013, 08:09:02 pm »

There is so much mystery surrounding currency distribution that is indeed fascinating.

Although there is evidence that there is inventory control of banknote distribution (see article by BoC on their website) the level to which there is control does not appear to be publicly known. It is known for instance that the BoC along with the Regional Distribution Centres is able to put more notes into circulation and pull notes out of circulation. It is also know that the BoC knows exactly the level of inventory there is at the BoC and each of the Regional Distribution Centres.

It is also known that the BoC is able to carry out fitness tests of banknotes and remove them completely from circulation or put them back into circulation.

One can surmise from the GOG test banknote case that the BoC had at that time some mechanism to capture very specific banknotes with very specific prefix and a narrow range of serial numbers as they came back into their system from circulation. Otherwise how would they even know how these notes were doing in circulation. Can you imagine someone going through all the notes manually at BoC just to find the GOG? There has to be a better way for BoC to know about it than a manual process.

If the BoC was able to do this work more than a decade ago is it not possible that things have just improved.

If you search hard enough and put two and two to gather I am sure you will find evidence that there is  equipment that can identify the prefix and serial number of a banknote at very high speeds. The prefix and serial numbers are machine readable as printed.

Something tells me that the BoC knows exactly (prefix and serial numbers) which notes have been taken out of circulation at the end of their life.

Finally if these things were absolutely random why do we see a whole slew of HP? notes but no HAE+ notes. Okay you may aruge that maybe only limited HAE+ were  printed but then can you explain to me EKZ. These notes are printed (I am guessing they were among the first to be printed because everywhere in the BoC videos they are featured)

This would be considered enough of an anecdotal evidence in terms of the research world to begin to believe that there is some form of control on currency maybe note at the serial number level but at least at the prefix level.

I am new to this hobby but I think the numismatic industry as a collective can certainly play a greater role in trying to get information from the BoC. While there are certainly matters of security many of the things that the numismatic industry wants are simple non-security type of facts.

I have heard from many that the BoC is not willing to entertain any questions. But I am a firm believer that if you approach it as an group of well meaning people then there is bound to be something that comes out of it.

The BEP (US) has videos and other information about their processes. Similarly there is  information about the Danish banknotes and to some extent even the Euros. Even the Australian bank has some information their website for the numismatic world and I believe they even sell notes directly to collectors.

For the same type of information on Canadian banknotes we have to guess. Just beats me. But then what do you expect from a newbie  :(

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2013, 09:06:25 pm »

In terms of geographic distribution I would tend to agree with previous posts that BoC is not making any deliberate decisions to keep certain prefixes out of reach of certain collectors based on a geographical bias.

There may be reasons for distributing more notes in one region v/s another based on needs of the particular region.

Also is it not conceivable that the BoC for purely keeping track of wear on notes may decide to distribute certain range of notes in certain regions? This way when they check for fitness they may have a better grasp of how the fitness changes over time for specific notes based on where they were first distributed.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
walktothewater
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Join the Journey
    • Notaphylic Culture
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 12:30:29 pm »

Quote
Bricks of notes get stored in piles, first at the printing company, then at distribution centres across the country.  Bricks get removed at random with no preference whatsoever for prefix, printing company, age, etc.  To the Bank of Canada, printing companies, distribution centres and financial institutions, one banknote is equivalent to all the others.  A brick of $20s is a brick of $20s no matter what the prefix.

I agree with this statement.  There are many factors that could change the course of whether a particular prefix is distributed in a specific region.  However, I highly doubt that anyone is purposely distributing bricks of notes according to their numbers or prefixes.  There may be some direction (when they first come out) now only according to series (perhaps favouring the new polymer or old Journey series) simply because there may be some preference to use up the old or introduce the new (for the $20 and later for the $10 & $5).  Notes are distributed according to need & that's it.

Seth
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 05:37:14 pm »

I agree; I'm sure when it's time to send some notes out to a region where they have been ordered, they just grab whatever's closest to the door in the warehouse. It's not like bank note inventory has to be rotated like perishable food.

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
 

Login with username, password and session length