Author
Topic: BEWARE: Altered Canadian $2 1954 Notes being sold as Errors  (Read 11792 times)
Wizard1
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • Peanut Butter Jelly Time,Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
« on: November 02, 2014, 10:39:19 pm »

BEWARE, I have recently started to track American sellers selling (chemically) altered Canadian $2 Notes as errors, and they are making BIG money.

So far there has been TWO sellers. Both are TOP Rated Sellers , and BOTH have their feedback nearly all private:

Playing with the eBay images in photoshop (adjusting the levels) reveals remnants of the alterations:

NOTE 1: Note presented as an error $2 note missing both sets of serial numbers on the front
Adjusting levels to: 84, 0.39, 255

The picture on the back seems to show a partial serial under "deux dollars". Looks like 782 for the last few digits right under the word "dollars"




NOTE 2: Note presented as an error $2 note missing both sets of serial numbers on the front AND completely missing back printed (white)

Adjusting levels to: 50, 0.20, 255

Reveals nearly the entire "missing" design along with the remains of the serial numbers at exact the right spot where one would expect the serial numbers to be




NOTE 3: Note presented as an error $2 note missing both sets of serial numbers on the front AND completely missing back printed (white)
Adjusting levels to: 0, 0.13 , 240

Reveals same issues as with NOTE2




It actually looks like the 2nd seller got lazy and used the same note (but scanned at different times [the original levels for both pictures are different]) for both Note2 and Note3

Both also sell Stamps from China. IDK if there's any way to report this...so I thought id bring attention to it.
Cheers. 
   
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:42:07 pm by BWJM »

tripoli
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 03:19:25 pm »

If there are suckers out there buying these ugly bills that are NOT certified as errors, then they deserve to lose their money.
friedsquid
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,870
  • CPMS 1593
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 05:41:28 pm »

If there are suckers out there buying these ugly bills that are NOT certified as errors, then they deserve to lose their money.
Everyone can make a mistake, especially a newbie...so I think that they deserve to lose their money is a little harsh, but that is only my opinion....
Thanks Wizard for the info and hopefully more collectors see the advantage of belonging to a forum such as this and a member of the CPMS...the information we get and things we can learn is well worth the peanuts it costs to be a part of...



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
mmars
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,352
  • money is gregarious
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 06:54:25 pm »

Everyone can make a mistake, especially a newbie...so I think that they deserve to lose their money is a little harsh, but that is only my opinion....
Thanks Wizard for the info and hopefully more collectors see the advantage of belonging to a forum such as this and a member of the CPMS...the information we get and things we can learn is well worth the peanuts it costs to be a part of...

I doubt only newbies make mistakes in buying items like this.  Just as there are people who have been collecting for 30+ years who never learn to grade, there are probably experienced collectors who lack good judgement and/or are willing to take risks.  So I wouldn't put newbies in a separate category from everyone else.  I am not going to comment on whether people "deserve" to lose money.  People make mistakes, and they deserve help to correct their mistakes.  But I would never hold a person 100% blameless because that engenders reckless behaviour in people who think they can take all the risks they want and never deal with any consequences.  It also encourages buyers to create trumped-up allegations against sellers.  If people want to buy every note called an "error" without gaining the slightest bit of understanding of the note manufacturing processes, that's their prerogative, but it comes with many pitfalls.

    No hay banda  
tripoli
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 03:10:52 pm »

My point is, that if you are a collector of very unusual items such as printing errors in 1954 notes, then you should educate yourself as to  what a possible "real" error looks like.   This is a very niche market considering how few real examples are out there, and Yes, when a collector sees something that is "to good to be true," then it's caveat emptor!
Wizard1
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • Peanut Butter Jelly Time,Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 11:55:38 pm »

Looks like our friends are back again....





imo, there's no way this could happen as the very close-up picture shows faint details of the original print. I say this is post-production trickery

Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 10:11:33 pm »


imo, there's no way this could happen as the very close-up picture shows faint details of the original print. I say this is post-production trickery

Perhaps I am missing the point, but if the close-up picture shows faint details of original print then how does it follow that it would a post-production trickery?

Is it not possible that for some reason the intaglio in the missed area did not create as good an impression possibly because the engraving in the plate in those areas got partially defective? This is recognized in printing of this type as a possible issue.

Of course one can begin to wonder if it would be such a regular shape as a wedge and all that but then it would a different reason to consider this as trickery.

I am not saying that what I am raising is the case here  but certainly seems possible. ???

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Wizard1
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • Peanut Butter Jelly Time,Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 01:17:32 pm »

Perhaps I am missing the point, but if the close-up picture shows faint details of original print then how does it follow that it would a post-production trickery?

Is it not possible that for some reason the intaglio in the missed area did not create as good an impression possibly because the engraving in the plate in those areas got partially defective? This is recognized in printing of this type as a possible issue.

Of course one can begin to wonder if it would be such a regular shape as a wedge and all that but then it would a different reason to consider this as trickery.

I am not saying that what I am raising is the case here  but certainly seems possible. ???

The fact that you can still see nearly all the intaglio should raise flags already, as any possible "damage" to the plates shouldn't be so uniform throughout the affected area. It can't be underinking as it definitely wouldn't cause such a perfect wedge shape either. My feeling is that this group (same group that did the $2 notes on the first post), used a mixture of chemical and abrasion to achieve this "error"

If there are any experts around that are familiar with the sheet layouts for this series of notes, ... where would plate 20 (or 29 [its not clear in the picture]) fall on the actual sheet?

Hunter
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 11:13:11 pm »

Hmmm :-\,
Maybe when the note was going through the press a piece of paper (trim) may have stuck to the sheet when the ink was still wet. Then when the piece of whatever came off, it took most but not all of the ink with it.

Is it just a harmless prefix-kix or do I live for that next prefix-fix?
Gary_T
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,082
  • CPMS radar member 1551
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 11:31:08 pm »

40 years of collecting and this is the first time I've seen this. I'd say fake.

Gary_T
Wizard1
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • Peanut Butter Jelly Time,Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 11:43:07 pm »

Hmmm :-\,
Maybe when the note was going through the press a piece of paper (trim) may have stuck to the sheet when the ink was still wet. Then when the piece of whatever came off, it took most but not all of the ink with it.


IF that were true you most likely wouldn't see distinct lines from the intaglio (esp along the neck and collar area). It would be more of a smear throughout the affected area.

Hunter
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 02:16:51 am »

I didn’t mean slopping wet ink that it would smear. I meant sticky ink that something could have been stuck to it and been peeled off later after drying.

or

Maybe someone just scrapped the ink off with a chisel.

Sheesh! I only have a picture to l ::) k at.

Is it just a harmless prefix-kix or do I live for that next prefix-fix?
Bob
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 501
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 01:12:16 pm »

Wizard asks, "where would plate 20 (or 29 [its not clear in the picture]) fall on the actual sheet?"
It looks like 29 to me, in which case it was the note in column 2, row 4 on a CBN sheet IF the change had been made to position numbering when series IZ was produced.  (If not, 29 would be the face plate number, found on every note from the sheet.)
For what it may be worth, I concur that the "error" under discussion is very likely a post-production fake.

Collecting Canadian since 1955
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2015, 08:34:05 pm »

In the photograph I do not see any evidence of tampering.

One would think that if this was removed in some abrasive manner it would show some damage to the underlying paper.

If this was removed using chemicals one would thing that it would show some evidence of smudging when looking at the close-up.

This type of situation can occur in printing although I am not saying in this case it did.

I think we can believe what we want but I am not sure there is enough evidence to condemn something like that.

If indeed this happened post-production then I would love to meet this person who has such a great craftsmanship to be able to pull this off so neatly. I would love to have some weird patterns done on the bank notes just for artistic purposes. If anyone knows someone like that can they direct me to them. Please  ;)

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Manada
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 09:35:08 pm »

Painters tape and repeated dabbing with a solvent until the majority of the ink is gone could do the trick.

But always, there remained the discipline of steel. - Conan the Barbarian
 

Login with username, password and session length